Showing posts with label tongues. Show all posts
Showing posts with label tongues. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 23, 2014

Subsequence, Tongues, Seeking, Bah-Humbug!

The Charismatic Doctrine of Subsequence


Acts 2:4 is the charismatic touchstone, containing what many Pentecostals and charismatics view as the core truth of the New Testament; "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Most charismatics believe this verse teaches that at conversion Christians receive the Holy Spirit only in a limited sense.  Therefore, they believe, Christians need to seek Spirit baptism in order to move to a higher level of spiritual life, being supernaturally immersed in the power of God's Spirit.  The experience is usually -- many say always -- accompanied by speaking in tongues and results in new spiritual motivation and power.

The notion that one gets salvation at one point and the baptism of the Spirit later is often referred to as the doctrine of subsequence.  Gordon Fee lists two Pentecostal distinctives "(1) the doctrine of subsequence, i.e., that there is for Christians a baptism in the Spirit distinct from and subsequent to the experience of salvation . . . , and (2) the doctrine of tongues as the initial physical evidence of baptism in the Spirit."  

In his thorough investigation of Pentecostal theology, Frederick Dale Bruner wrote, "Pentecostals believe that the Spirit has baptized every believer into Christ (conversion), but that Christ has not baptized every believer into the Spirit (Pentecost)."  Not only do most charistmatics believe that the baptism of the Spirit happens at some point after salvation, but most also believe that Spirit baptism is something Christians must seek.  Bruner goes on to say, 
The most important characteristics of the Pentecostal understanding of the baptism in the Holy Spirit . . . are; (1) that the event is usually "distinct from and subsequent to" the new birth; (2) that it is evidenced initially by the sign of speaking in other tongues; (3) that it must be "earnestly" sought.
Those three elements -- baptism of the Spirit subsequent to conversion, the earnest seeking of those who are baptized, and the evidence of speaking in tongues -- are characteristic of nearly all charismatic doctrine.  In most other areas of theology charismatics are vague,  but here they usually speak a clear word regarding what they believe.

Charismatics attempt to support their doctrine of subsequence from the book of Acts.  First Corinthians 12:13 ("For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free and we were all made to drink of one Spirit") cannot be used to prove subsequence because the verse simply says that all believers have been baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ.  Indeed, it would seem clear that the baptism described in 1 Corinthians 12:13 cannot take place at a point in time after salvation.  Otherwise, what Paul says could not be true of all Christians.  No evidence such as tongues is mentioned, and no requirement of seeking the baptism is alluded to. 

Charismatics are also unable to use 1 Corinthians 14 to prove the tenets of subsequence, evidence, or seeking, because the chapter has nothing to say about any of those elements.  In fact, the only passages charismatics can use to support their doctrine of subsequence are found in Acts.  The epistles say nothing that can be construed to support the idea.

The truth is, even the book of Acts fails to support the charismatic view.  Only four passages mention tongues or receiving the Holy Spirit:  Chapters 2, 8, 10 and 19.  Only in Acts 2 and 8 do believers receive the Spirit after salvation.  In Acts 10 and 19, believers were baptized in the Spirit at the moment of belief.  So the doctrine of subsequence cannot be convincingly defended even from the book of Acts.

What about tongues?  Believers spoke in Acts 2, 10, and 19, but there is no record of tongues in Chapter 8.

What about the requirement of earnestly seeking the baptism?  The believers in Acts 2 simply waited prayerfully for the fulfillment of the Lord's promise (cf. 1:4, 14).  In Chapters 8, 10, or 19, no seeking is mentioned.   

The point is clear.  To say that the book of Acts presents the normal pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit presents a problem:  no consistent pattern is evident in Acts!  

It is true that Christians at Pentecost (Acts 2), Gentiles in Cornelius's household (Chapter 10), and the Jews at Ephesus who had only the baptism of John (Chapter 19) received the Holy Spirit and tongues followed.  But because those three events occurred does not mean they are to be the standard for every other Christian.  In fact, none of the passages we are discussing (Acts 2, 8, 10, or 19) imply that similar experiences are to be had by anyone else.   

If tongues were to be the normal experience, why were tongues not mentioned in Acts 8 when the Samaritans received the Holy Spirit!  Why does the text in Acts 2 through 4 not say that everyone who believed following Peter's sermons (over 5,000 people according to Acts 4:4) and received the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) also spoke in tongues?  In order for something to be normative, it has to be common to everyone.  

John Stott reasoned that:
The 3,000 do not seem to have experienced the same miraculous phenomena (the mighty rushing wind, the tongues of flame, or the speech in foreign languges).  At least nothing is said about these things.  Yet because of God's assurance through Peter they must have inherited the same promise and received the same gift (verses 33, 39).  Nevertheless, there was this difference between them:  the 120 were regenerate already, and received the baptism of the Spirit only after waiting upon God for ten days.  The 3,000 on the other hand were unbelievers, and received the forgiveness of their sins and the gift of the Spirit simultaneously -- and it happened immediately when they repented and believed, without any need to wait.
This distinction between the two companies, the 120 and the 3,000, is of great importance, because the norm for today must surely be the second group, the 3,000, and not (as is often supposed) the first.  The fact that the experience of the 120 was in two distinct stages was due simply to historical circumstances.  They could not have received the Pentecostal gift before Pentecost.  But those historical circumstances have long since ceased to exist.  We live after the event of Pentecost, like the 3,000.  With us, therefore, as with them, the forgiveness of sins and the "gift" or "baptism" of the Spirit are received together.

Subsequence -- not supported by Scripture !
Tongues -- grossly misinterpreted Scripture !
Earnestly Seeking -- simply false teaching !


God must be having a good laugh at what He sees Pentecostals and charismatics doing down here, or is He?


CHARISMATICS JUST DON'T GET IT!

Still looking for that book about the false teachings of the Baptist church !


For more information on Victory Churches and the Faith Movement, go to the Reference Library.  Click on any book title to get a brief overview of the book.  All books on the list are available through www.amazon.com. 

Friday, March 11, 2011

The Wrong Jesus

CHRISTIANS MUST SPEAK IN TONGUES

JESUS DIED TO GIVE US HEALTH & WEALTH

BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A SUBSEQUENT EXPERIENCE

THE EXISTENCE OF MODERN DAY PROPHETS AND APOSTLES

GOD SPEAKS DIRECTLY TO OUR PASTOR

EMPTY PROMISES OF FAITH HEALINGS 


DEMANDING GOD PERFORM MIRACLES EVERY WEEK

NEW EXTRA-BIBLICAL REVELATIONS

EXPERIENCE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOCTRINE

EXTREME EMPHASIS ON THE HOLY SPIRIT

 
PASTORS RULE THEIR CONGREGANTS WITH AN IRON FIST

GIVE MORE MONEY TO RECEIVE THE GIFTS

 
TREATING FAMILY LIKE STRANGERS AND STRANGERS LIKE FAMILY


PASTOR IS THE NEW HEAD OF THE CHURCH, NOT CHRIST

EXPOSING YOUR CHILDREN TO SATAN AND HIS COHORTS

PRE-ARRANGED MARRIAGES EXCLUSIVELY WITHIN THE CHURCH

PASTOR IS CONSULTED ON ALL MAJOR DECISIONS

ONLY YOUR SPIRITUAL FAMILY CAN GIVE ADVICE

 

NO TIME FOR FRIENDS OR RELATIONSHIPS OUTSIDE THE CHURCH

TITHING EXHORBITANT AMOUNTS OF YOUR INCOME


EMPHASIS ON GIVING IS KEY TO PASTOR'S LAVISH LIFESTYLE

OUR PASTOR DESERVES TO HAVE THE BIGGEST HOUSE

FORMER MEMBERS LIVING IN FEAR OF DAMAGE TO PROPERTY


"IT'S ALL ABOUT ME" RELIGION INSTEAD OF GOD


WE HAVE THE PERFECT CHURCH

THE DISGRUNTLED ARE PARTICULARLY PRONE TO BEING LURED IN

WE MEET YOUR NEEDS SO YOU BECOME OBLIGATED TO US

LEAVING REQUIRES YOU TO LEAVE ALL YOUR FRIENDS BEHIND

GIVE SOMEBODY A CAR AND THEY WILL BECOME EXTREMELY DEVOTED

PASTOR PERSONALLY COMES TO YOUR HOME TO PICK UP TITHE 

 
THIS IS THE CHARISMATIC JESUS.

(PENTECOSTAL, WORD OF FAITH, VICTORY CHURCHES)

THIS NEW JESUS IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.

IF YOU BELIEVE IN THIS NEW JESUS,

  1. HEAVEN IS NOT IN YOUR FUTURE
  2. YOUR ETERNITY IS IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY
  3. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO AT THE PEARLY GATES
 WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK IT IS ?
HOW ABOUT ALL OF THE ABOVE ! 


BROAD IS THE WAY THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION AND MANY THERE BE THAT FIND IT...

... NARROW IS THE WAY THAT LEADS TO LIFE AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.


PERHAPS THIS VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT THE PENTECOSTAL/CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT WHICH IS ATTRACTING SO MANY PEOPLE WORLDWIDE.


FOLLOWING THE CROWD WILL MOST CERTAINLY LEAD TO DESTRUCTION.
THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED IS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE.

HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE TRUTH CAN YOU GO BEFORE GOD WILL SAY "DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU?"



A Few Comments from Our Readers:

Can't Leave My Name says
How true are these statements!  It's time that all of these crackpot church leaders got a lesson from God.  They are leading so many innocent people astray that something really needs to be done.  I hope that this message reaches tens of thousands so that the revolt can start (particularly with the Barrie Victory Centre).  It's time they were shut down before they ruin even more families and lives.

Beverley Shaw says
I think that you have hit the nail right on the head when it comes to these charlatans.  It's about time that someone spoke out about the issues of what people believe!  Thank you.  I am sending this to my brother as I am sure that they are involved in one of these places.

Tessie Malton says
It's refreshing to see that there is someone who is not afraid of these pastors who rule their congregants with an iron fist.  I hope that you are able to be strong and continue to stand up for what is biblically right.  Keep up the blog..do not get discouraged!
 

  WHO YOU SAY JESUS IS, MATTERS !

To quote Shakespeare, 
"Something is rotten in the
State of Denmark."